I remember on my 20th or 21st course at a Goenka center seeing some tough guy who was built like a tank and into kick boxing. During the course which was about midway through, I was walking past the pegoda and its surrounding bush and seeing this guy doing scissor kicks like he does them every morning for warm ups. He was tough like acid and the male manager who was a pretty big guy himself told me he just backed off from this guy. I remember seeing him(kick boxer) on top of a compound barrier checking things out. The barrier is there to block out traffic noise from the busy main road. He was like a character from Quake or Unreal Tournament. All these people in the main hall had no idea what was going on. It never ceases to amaze me what can on on under the noses of the Vipassana lifeguards who are responsible for the lives of hundreds of people on a course but ho hum. People are vulnerable on the vipassana courses whether they agree, see it or not. Anyway, this tough guy had a great sense of humour and made people laugh in the main hall but you wouldn't laugh in his face for he would have put a hole in it. Has anyone else had interesting experiences? I know that someone else tried to burn the center down and another guy went apeshit when his application was rejected. This is the kind of stuff that they don't tell you about which goes on at an otherwise dull vipassana center.
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Unsu...
Re: Retreat kick boxer
Mon, June 2, 2008 - 1:15 PMDavi and Mark bug off because if I want to see your imput, I will flush the toilet :)
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Re: Retreat kick boxer
Mon, June 2, 2008 - 2:13 PMI would say : 'strong reaction' means 'worth interest'..
I think that vipassana has strong effect; I don't know what are the outcome though. Thus, being deep, people react strongly.. as you do.
I wander what made you so angry about those retreats.. especially after more than 20 of them!!
Either your a masochist or you found yourself on a bad trip and it's time to get out of it if you don't want to burn out speaking alone.
Then listen, even though your posts make me think to all this from another point of view, I don't think that it is by being so agressive to hard core followers (of that cult if you like) that you will make the point - simple communication logic.
And I'm sure that your posts might make retreats look rather interesting than crappy; at least for some.
Personnaly I don't feel that involve in all this vipassana stuff, but to see how people around it can range from very insightfull and smart to brainwashingly happy or complettely freaked out, that fill me with the envy to investigate bravely deeper in this higher level of sensitivity.
-not sure I'm quite clear here..-
Now, since you seem to be willing to scream all the crap you have accumulated about goenka, for me it would be a good balance to tell why you went again and again to those retreats and why you're still practicing, as I understood. I mean, I'm quite new to this post and I'd really like to know what positiv thoughts you have about and why you became so angry.
Well... I guess you already told that somwhere else, but I'm really wandering.
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Unsu...
Re: Retreat kick boxer
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 9:51 AMStrong reaction sankara. Oh you don't have those of course do you vipassana fanatics. lol pft :P Ive seen and heard it all before. Human nature being as it is we can see so many enlightened Vipassana people around us changing the world (notibly) , as are the scientologists and martians of course. Credits should appear on CNN and Discovery channel soon I hope. Pardon sarcasim but please read on. Truth is that the goenka doesn't care about his followers and neither do his clergy. There are people who go to the centres who are terminally ill. What fear they must face. There are old people who go there to find meaning in what time they have left and there was an old man called Elvis(not that Elvis) who worked on a roof in a certain kitchen and his efforts were torn down and were un- appreciated. ...HUMANS ARE NOT DISPOSABLE. Eh goenka?:P He looked at least 75 years old back then! No heart from the Vipassana hierarchy. Expendable like an insect. Creepy. Call me emo but that to me isn't right. That was an earlier warning sign that silly me didn't wake up to. Stupid me. As for Goenka...he claims to be (in his own subtle way) on the path to being the next or a new buddha(don't ask him to prove it though because he is above science although he constantly claims his exclusive technique to be scientific ). Arrogance! "Goenka can't prove that he is not capable of killing a man under the right conditions" but he does appear so cute like a teddy bear that you would never conceive of the notion. I could go further and ask, how do we know if there really was a buddha anyway? I've done 20 courses because I dam well felt like it and don't have to answer to anyone. Ask anyone why they do 5-10-30 courses etc and if they are honest then they admit that it is for their own relaxation of divine seeking(if that way enclined). I found the courses to be useful but as the years went by I have found them less and less useful and I started to see them more dogmatic. I had put up with arrogant mean students and decided that the path was shit. That means I will go to one of the 4 lower realms.This is 13 years of victimisation from peasants who are no better than you or I. That's my philosphy. Vipassana cult bah humbug. The joke was bad and I will find a better one for all you vipassana devoted to have a laugh. It will be clean so don't get your knickers in a knot ok. :P -
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Re: Retreat kick boxer
Tue, June 10, 2008 - 12:46 PMI think that most of vipassana (*meditation ) teachers (*from oriental traditions) won't have any psychology skills for awkward occidental fucked up entities..
And any spiritual path seemes to be allowed only when you are set with lower needs. It's a shame that some people with problems try to 'enlighten' before having ever tried to face themself.
i actually practice neo-reichian exercises:
reichiantherapy.net
or
Hyatt's exercises in Undoing Yourself the Book
+
a somato-psychotherapist therapy (as they call themself here)
with kundalini yoga:
www.brainsync.com/product.asp
+
1 class per week
I wander what you tried and what you think of yoga..
to wich extend do you think that vipassanna actually goes much 'deeper' or something.
or at least where would you place the difference in self-awarness and discovery and improvement.
note that i hope you tried other stuffs than vipassanna to give it so much time. -
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Re: Retreat kick boxer
Wed, June 11, 2008 - 11:18 AM"I think that most of vipassana (*meditation ) teachers (*from oriental traditions) won't have any psychology skills for awkward occidental fucked up entities.. "
I don't think he's completely occidental. He said he was half African. -
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Re: Retreat kick boxer
Wed, June 11, 2008 - 5:44 PM'half in the bag' is more like it...
ooops... there goes 'right speech' right out the window~ -
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Re: Retreat kick boxer
Thu, June 12, 2008 - 12:05 AMI miss the point of your two posts here..
i wasn't speaking about 'unsuscribe', but with him.
and personnaly i don't care about your childish litle fights, but i repeat that I don't fully understand - probably my english.
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Re: Retreat kick boxer
Thu, June 12, 2008 - 12:15 AMhi w.i.m,
sorry for any misunderstanding.
i was just playing along in a childish little fight.
i hope this helps you better understand the point of my post.
it's wrong speech for sure.
sometimes i feel naughty in this egospace.
mettahug,
d
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Re: Retreat kick boxer
Thu, June 12, 2008 - 3:16 AM"I miss the point of your two posts here.. "
They're being funny ... an Anglo-Saxon thing left over in our cultures. Always give a little time for appreciation ;-) -
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Re: Retreat kick boxer
Fri, June 20, 2008 - 8:42 AMI'm just posting some thoughts on this matter since it became such an emotional issue for "unsubscribed".
1. People who go to meditation centers and retreats as staff and as students, are just people. They neither care more nor less about those around them than anyone else in our society.
2. If we expect more out of them, then perhaps we are deluded.
3. If we expect more out of ourselves, then perhaps we are deluded.
4. We can't change them, but maybe we can change ourselves. - then again, we may be deluded..
5. You don't have to go to a center to meditate, or work on yourself.
6. We don't necessarily become enlightened because we see the path, or because we're on it.
7. Whenever there is a great deal of energy focused on something, its opposite will become apparent. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Retreat kick boxer
Sat, June 21, 2008 - 2:09 AM"7. Whenever there is a great deal of energy focused on something, its opposite will become apparent." -
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Re: Retreat kick boxer
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 9:34 AMi just want to put in my 2 cents-experience..
--all the people at the centers are just people, and some teachers are much better then others, but i think they are all well intentioned. i had a VERY hard time, in my first course and told the teachers they were hypocrits on the 2nd day (i have a LOT of issues)
but they continued to help and never once said anything to me that was not positive -- even coming by to ask how i was doing when i went back to serve.. just generally being super nice.
but again, everyone was very different there, and there were various levels of devotion-questioning among the folks i met...
but i found people to be very supportive and kind. maybe this depends on who you are, and where you are at? i would say, if you devoted 20 courses worth of time to the org. maybe it would be worth your while to contact a teacher or someone and just talk about what frustrates you! it might give some insight, or at least let the problems you have encountered be known, and maybe dealt with.
communication of problems (provided it is done in a respectful manner) is allways a good idea
maybe you have already done this?
its funny how everyone has such different viewpoints. I dont think the goenka group is perfect either, but i find the positive outweighs the negative...you have to be willing to take what you get in life i guess, and trust your intuitions. I doubt very much that a "pure" spiritual path exists, in our confused world!
all the best to you
sarah -
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Re: Retreat kick boxer
Sat, July 26, 2008 - 12:42 PMYou are correct. These people do not care. This is the essence of their vipassana. Everything just passes away and if some person goes after so many years then they have just passed away like a leaf in the autumn breeze. Who cares what they have contibuted? I have had so many experiences there. I feel like a divorced woman for gods sake! We are dust ...if we don't serve continuously that is. If you serve and play along with the vipassana mind games then you are at least in. Isn't it good to be at least in . CRAP. The great AT is so high and the lowly student is so mmm well you know.... I am sick of it. My pay out is on the cult. The good news is that observing the sensations is relaxing. It is not the answer to life though. Life is a battle and you have to face it head on. Vipassana doesn't approach this in a practical manner. It doesnt solve issues. Most times new students end the course looking like aliens. It is a day dream realm and the bitch world sorts it out. Goekna is rich and adored. He is the vipassana god. All hale or snow him. Sorry bad humour there. If
Goenka is your god then may he go with you. May the first enlightened Goenka student please stand up! AT oh but the enlightened one wouldn't stand up. Rediculous. Sorry folks. -
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Re: Retreat kick boxer
Sat, July 26, 2008 - 1:04 PMI hereby(in a very english way) challenge the vippasana cult to show a stream enterer at the least. I want to know of a stream enterer. They speak of the aryan. Goenka says to question authority so let's see some results in the 21st century. I want to see the presence of an aryon. lol. You are all the bloody same. Central nervous system can be modified and it has some benefits for some. Observing the sensations with equanimity can adjust hormones. Where is the proof that it makes someone super human like a god or sends them to a better world? Vipassana is an organised religion. It is not a science. Mind does not survive beyond death unless YOU CAN PROVE IT! Science demands proof not faith. I for one wish to become a muslim because I have had enough! -
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Re: Retreat kick boxer
Sun, September 14, 2008 - 11:03 PMI think you are right but Goenka keeps insisting that his path is the direct one yet people at the centres behave like such c..ks. He compares his centres with noble centres of thousands of years ago and they are not. He has no proof that centers like his existed in india 2500 years ago. The actual vipassana technique to me is a chemical technique or a kind of brainwashing but it is not worth the effort and does not bring lasting results for the time and effort put in. The superior mediator will loveingly say that this is because my sins are so great that it takes so much more effort. What we have at Vipassana Goenka is a 'caste' or class system where various people are put higher up in quality to others. It is not human although on the surface it appears to be that way. People abuse each other in the kitchens but they are not given human qualities by management. Managment will have a red tape drill. The high rollers always win whether they are working up the corporate ladder or running a mining camp. Goenka is supposed to offer a non organised religion yet is is organised. If you people out there who are fanatical think that I am saying all this stuff in my posts just be a nuisense then just chastise me because I speak from experience. NO MORE HIGH CHAIRS FOR AT'S. No more picking on the weaker guys. go to hell Goenka establishment. This is my aversion(sin) :)
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